Yes, It's Fascism

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/01/america-fascism-trump-maga-ice/685751/

Comments

KaibeezyJan 25, 2026, 8:55 PM
If you are debating whether to read this article, read it. It’s comprehensive and precise, and although political in substance, not political in form — test-fitting an imprecise definition. The fact it also reaches a firm conclusion (spoiler alert right there in the title) is depoliticized by allowing for malleable application. A benchmark article I will now go share elsewhere.

What’s left to talk about? How to react. How it ends. Where we likely go from there. Where we should go.

azakaiJan 25, 2026, 8:58 PM
If this interested you, here is another detailed and precise article by a historian, on the same topic:

https://acoup.blog/2024/10/25/new-acquisitions-1933-and-the-...

ezstJan 25, 2026, 9:10 PM
…and another one, much less academic in style and substance, but no less informative and relevant:

https://scribe.rip/@carmitage/i-researched-every-attempt-to-...

KaibeezyJan 25, 2026, 9:22 PM
Add the Umberto Eco Ur-Fascism linked below.
lossoloJan 26, 2026, 12:16 AM
> How it ends. Where we likely go from there.

I highly recommend Anniversary https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12583926/

ModernMechJan 26, 2026, 4:52 AM
It's nice but also endlessly frustrating and very very late, because what he regards as overuse of the term is really just people who were applying the term correctly for the past 10 years as people like the author refused to call a spade a spade. If the nascent fascist were discarded, people would have stopped saying it so much.

The problem for people like the author is that other more astute individuals [1] correctly diagnosed the issue over a decade ago. All it took was for her to have grown up in Poland and to be a clinical psychologist who knows how to spot malignant narcissism. The rest fell into place because human nature is so... predictable.

So while it's welcome for the author to finally catch up to the rest of us, it's a little late at this point. Also If people like the author had listened to more sensible people when they had started using the F word instead of dismissing them as hyperbolic, then we wouldn't be here.

Also this bit:

> Although Trump is term-limited, we must not expect that he and his MAGA loyalists will voluntarily turn over the White House to a Democrat in 2029, regardless of what the voters say—and the second insurrection will be far better organized than the first.

shows the author is still a step behind. The correct framing is that the first insurrection succeeded. It continued after Jan 6 for 4 years, as Trump waged an information war contending he was the true winner of the election, and also a war on the judiciary to evade accountability. In that battle he evaded all accountability, nullified the impeachment clause of the Constitution, and also gained "Presidential Immunity" from his appointees on SCOTUS. He also nullified Section 3 of the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which prohibits anyone who has previously taken an oath to support the Constitution from holding state or federal office if they have "engaged in insurrection or rebellion" against the US. Trump caused an insurrection, and yet somehow he was allowed to run and hold office again.

So the first insurrection was successful, the perpetrators got away with it, and they assumed total power over the government they attacked after evading judicial accountability and waging an information war on the population.

Anyway, next time there won't be a need for an insurrection, because the only reason there was one in 2021 was because plans A through G failed -- they couldn't get votes in Georgia, they couldn't overturn any state, they didn't win any court cases, they couldn't get people to go along with their "alternate electors" theory, and they couldn't get Pence to go along with the scheme. So they caused an insurrection as a last ditch effort to delay certification.

In 2029 every Republican will go along with plan A. They've already purged everyone who did the right thing in 2021 from the party. So they won't need an insurrection because any Democrat that wins in Georgia will just be erased, as they've made sure to take state control over county election boards after county election boards there went against Trump's wishes in 2020.

[1] https://medium.com/@Elamika

throw0101cJan 25, 2026, 10:35 PM
> If you are debating whether to read this article, read it. It’s comprehensive and precise, and although political in substance […]

Also perhaps worth noting that David Frum, former speech writer to Dubya Bush, writes for The Atlantic (and has been against Trump from the start: see his book Trumpocracy):

* https://www.theatlantic.com/author/david-frum/

So we're not just talking about 'leftists' criticizing these actions and policies.

JeremyNTJan 26, 2026, 1:00 AM
The left / right split isn't really meaningful in the United States right now.

The split is currently between people who believe in and want a functional and equitable government, and those who are fine with a kleptocracy as long as they are personally the beneficiaries (or at least, the people they dislike suffer worse).

People like Frum were quick to notice this and get on the correct side of it. Unfortunately, there are not enough Republicans who feel the same way to make much of a difference.

atomic_reedJan 26, 2026, 4:41 AM
[dead]
ikiddJan 25, 2026, 11:55 PM
And was a pretty rabid conservative until the Trump era. He only left the Republicans in 2024, he was around for the first term.

Maybe he's grown a spine.

messeJan 25, 2026, 9:55 PM
This should not have been flagged off the front page.

I really worry for the people in the US, but I'm hopeful it's hegemony is ending.

ZigurdJan 25, 2026, 11:13 PM
Techno accelerationists don't like to be reminded of their complicity.
tavavexJan 25, 2026, 11:34 PM
I don't think accelerationists would mind - even if they believe that what's happening is wrong, going further in is the backbone of the whole ideology, so why would they be having second thoughts?

I think the real group behind this is people who are capable of sensing that this is wrong at least on some deeper level, but who are so complacent that they just want not to think about it too much. Maybe it's because they're in too deep, maybe they make too much money off of it to care, maybe their heels are too dug in on social issues for them to ever try to reconsider. Possibly a combination of any of the three.

mickle00Jan 25, 2026, 10:28 PM
I really wish there was more transparency around mod actions
hysanJan 26, 2026, 3:27 AM
I think it isn’t mod actions but rather the very likely fact that there is a small, but large enough group of flaggers who will act in unison to remove any such post from the front page. If you want an affirmation of the efficacy of the moderation system, what you should want is transparency into the voting behaviors of the population. If you see a heavy voting correlation between flagged posts and either a specific set of users, voting timing (these types of posts get flagged much earlier than those that lean the other way politically), or both, then there is cause for concern that the algorithm of HN’s self moderation tools is being gamed. My bet is that it’s not the mods doing anything, but rather that there is already a critical mass of flag happy users that are controlling what gets to stay on the front page. I think it would be very interesting to see a write up on this topic, but it’s highly unlikely because I think it would violate privacy and user expectations of anonymity.
dangJan 26, 2026, 3:07 AM
Let me see if I can outline how we approach this in a way that might make sense to you...

People use the word "transparency" to mean different things. Here are the ways in which I think it's fair to say we're transparent about mod actions: (1) we explain the principles that we apply, frequently and at length; and (2) we're happy to answer questions, including about specific cases.

What we don't do is publish a complete moderation log. To understand why, it's probably easiest to look through my past answers about this at https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu.... Here's one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39234189.

In our experience, the current approach is a reasonable balance between the tradeoffs. It's true that we don't see all the comments like the ones you posted here, and we can't address what we don't see. It's also true that, as volume has grown, we've found it harder to reply to absolutely every question. But it's still eminently possible to get an answer if you want one—especially if you're asking in a way that signals good faith*.

(*I add the latter bit because some people use the format of "asking a question" as way of being aggressive and in such cases we may respond otherwise than by taking the question literally. That's pretty rare though.)

zzleeperJan 26, 2026, 3:15 AM
The problem is that a relatively small group of people (flaggers) just veto what we see and don't see. This made sense when we relied on flagging to just remove spam, useless posts, etc. but its now being used to remove anything that goes against MAGA.

I'm pretty sure that if you sqldump the list of flaggers of this and other posts (like the MN posts) you will find it's not a uniformly distributed list of users.

dangJan 26, 2026, 3:18 AM
You've replied before I even had a chance to add a second sentence! Edit: admittedly it is taking longer than usual...

I've answered that point many times, e.g. recently here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46378818. If you take a look at that and have a question that isn't answered there (or here), I'd be happy to take a crack at it.

I haven't had a chance to look at the flaggers of these recent stories to verify that they fit the same pattern, but the pattern is so well-established that it would be shocking if they didn't. Btw, when you say "anything that goes against MAGA", the converse is the case as well (possibly even a bit more so). And when I say (quoting the comment I just linked to):

> There are some accounts that abuse flags in the following sense: they only ever flag political stories, and their flags are always aligned with the same political position. When we see accounts doing that, we usually take away their flagging rights.

... I didn't add that we do this the same way in either political direction, because that goes without saying, or ought to. But I'm saying it explicitly here.

throwworhtthrowJan 25, 2026, 11:03 PM
The mods (dang and tomhow) have written probably 50,000 words on the subject. I've also emailed the mods and promptly received personal replies.

Transparent as you could ever hope for: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=dang

messeJan 25, 2026, 11:35 PM
So the explanation for this removal condemning the ongoing fascist revolt in the US is where?

At least that's what it looks like to an outside observer from elsewhere in the world. It's been fascinating as an outsider to watch your republicans suddenly unsure about the second amendment after the last few days.

scqJan 26, 2026, 12:59 AM
Mods didn't remove it, user flags did.
cmurfJan 26, 2026, 12:58 AM
There's no uncertainty. Republicans now openly assert the 2nd amendment belongs to supporters and defenders of the regime, and no one else.

The movement opposes equality because equality stands opposed to their need for hierarchy. It is a domination and submission movement. It boasts about its application of double standards. Double standards are not logical fallacies, when they use them they are virtues. To enjoy for themselves what they deny to others is a display of dominance.

tombertJan 25, 2026, 10:54 PM
I think generally the mods like to avoid anything involving "politics" since it's likely to start a flame war.

The issue, of course, is that literally anything can be "political", and moreover by trying to actively avoid political discussions you sort of tacitly endorse the status quo.

It's a tough line to draw, and I'd be lying if I said where I knew where to draw it; HN is a fun forum specifically because the moderation is generally very good. They're not perfect but they do try and shut things down before they devolve into flame wars and personal insults. If there weren't aggressive modding, HN would devolve into 4chan or 8chan, and it wouldn't be appealing to me after the age of ~17.

tavavexJan 25, 2026, 11:40 PM
It is a difficult issue. For the longest time, the status quo-favoring position of not complaining about anything divisive too much worked well because the status quo had been relatively unchanging - most people grew up with it so everyone took it for granted, and even most types of pushback was far more reserved than what we see today.

But now that the status quo of Western countries had begun rapidly shifting into something completely different, the other side of that initial ruling is starting to bear fruit. I really think that at this point they should revisit this policy - not to abandon moderation, but make amends that try to distance this place from the current political establishment. What was yesterday's implicit favoring of the boring consensus is now a defined position that's supportive of whatever the current powers do. But, being more cynical, given how close HN is to Y Combinator, I'm not sure if that option is on the table.

dangJan 26, 2026, 1:07 AM
> the mods like to avoid anything involving "politics" since it's likely to start a flame war.

You're correct that we like to avoid flamewars, but not correct to say "anything involving politics". We don't try to (or want to) avoid politics altogether—a certain number of threads with political overlap have always been part of the mix here*. For (reams of) past explanations see https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so....

What we want to avoid is HN being taken over by politics altogether, and thereby turning into an entirely different site. We want HN to adhere to its mandate, which is to optimize for intellectual curiosity (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...). That certainly includes some political discussion, but (a) not beyond a certain threshold, and (b) not every kind of political story or article. (For example, opinion pieces are usually less of a fit than stories which contain significant new information, and so on.)

Unfortunately, this way of doing things inevitably generates conflict. For politically passionate users, that "not beyond a certain threshold" bit is far too little—especially in turbulent times, as now. Apart from that, there's no agreement on which particular stories deserve to be on the frontpage, and even if there were such agreement, there's still no way of making sure that the most deserving stories get the spots (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42787306).

Everyone has the experience of being frustrated when a story that they care about gets flagged or otherwise falls in rank. When feelings are running hot, people jump to the conclusion that we're secretly on the opposite political side, or trying to suppress discussion on a particular topic. That's not the case at all—it's all explicable by the principles that we've been repeating for years—but that none of that changes how it feels.

Then there are the users who feel like HN has gotten too political and is a shadow of its former self—this also has always been with us: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17014869.

Double unfortunately, I don't know of a fix for any of these binds, because all of them derive from the fundamentals of what HN is - e.g. a single frontpage with only so many slots (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...).

(* Or to put it differently, note the words most and probably in https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html, as pg once said: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4922426.)

tombertJan 26, 2026, 2:18 AM
Let me just preempt this by saying that I think you and tomhow do a very good job at moderating, and I'm just some goober on the internet sitting on a high-horse, so take what I say with as much respect as possible.

Hacker News is my favorite forum in no small part because this forum's users are, on average, a lot more educated than the average internet user. If not formally, a lot of the people here still do value learning and education as a whole. Those environments aren't organic on the internet, and it is largely due to efforts from folks like you to cultivate this audience and I do not want to dismiss that.

The concern, then, is that when the educated people can't discuss (and let's be honest, argue about) politics, then the only people who will be discussing politics will be the uneducated people. Politics is inherently contentious and we can't make progress (however you want to define it) without occasionally hurting feelings.

Now, a perfectly valid counter to this is "we're not stopping you from discussing contentious political issues, you're welcome to discuss it on one of the many other forums on the internet, just not here". That's fair enough, but it can come off as a little arbitrary, because virtually anything can be deemed "political"; I could argue that disagreements with type systems or the ISO standard of C or complaining about SQLite could be construed as "politically motivated".

I do realize that a line has to be drawn, though. The last thing I want is for the forum to devolve into 8chan or The Drudge Report or something, so while I don't completely agree at where you draw the line, I do understand why it is drawn.

tptacekJan 26, 2026, 2:42 AM
I think a useful litmus test for these kinds of stories is: do the people who most actively participate on them believe there's a conversation to be had, with multiple perspectives, not all of which agree with theirs? That's what this site is for.

If not, they're wrong for this site; more than wrong, corrosive. The stories themselves aren't bad (I have a lot of strong political beliefs too), but they're incompatible with the mode of discussion we have here: an unsiloed single front page and a large common pool of commenters.

(For the record: I don't believe there's a productive conversation to be had about ICE in Minnesota and wouldn't care to argue with anyone defending their actions. All the more reason not to nurture threads about it here.)

PS: I'm a longstanding "too-much-politics-on-HN" person, and even I'm a little annoyed that Jonathan Rauch's piece won't work here, if only so I can annoyingly noodle on the varying definitions of fascism. But flags are the right call here.

deegJan 26, 2026, 12:11 AM
I've been frustrated by the flagging (because fascism is so real right now) but I've been a moderator in the past and I know it's impossible to keep a large majority happy. It's hard for me to criticize the mods much.
tombertJan 26, 2026, 12:27 AM
Yeah, I’ve been a mod on a relatively small Discord server (~60 users) and even in that scope it can be difficult to keep people happy with stuff I’ve done.
tartoranJan 26, 2026, 3:10 AM
Best way to mod is to strive to keep discourse civil (by setting up a policy) but at the same time let people talk about what hey want to talk. Not letting them talk because they may fight or disagree is a patronizing behavior.
tombertJan 26, 2026, 3:21 AM
Makes enough sense. I'm not a mod of that server anymore because I got an in argument with the server's owner, and decided to leave, so I haven't gotten to practice my mod stuff in awhile.
messeJan 25, 2026, 11:09 PM
The limit should be outright fascism. It's not a tough line to draw if you've any inkling of 20th century history. The USA isn't sleepwalking, it's goose-stepping into a fucking nightmare.
tombertJan 25, 2026, 11:19 PM
Yeah that's fair. I mean, you can look at my comment history, I'm not above commenting on the bullshit from the Trump administration.
marksbrownJan 25, 2026, 8:36 PM
p4bl0Jan 25, 2026, 8:40 PM
If someone is able to access this, would it be possible to copy-paste the article content somewhere else? I'm stuck in a broken captcha loop.
tartoranJan 25, 2026, 8:49 PM
JtsummersJan 25, 2026, 8:41 PM
That happens with that site if you're using Cloudflare's DNS. Here's a gift link to the original:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/01/america-fascism-tr...

renewiltordJan 25, 2026, 8:49 PM
Everyone is Cloudflare anti-DDoS protected these days. Even pastebin. But perhaps it works https://pastebin.com/fHXz3eHG
blibbleJan 25, 2026, 9:03 PM
I wouldn't bet on the holding, the cloudflare CEO didn't seem above licking the ring

https://x.com/eastdakota/status/2009654937303896492

he's even using their rhetoric ("DISGUSTING")

mickle00Jan 25, 2026, 8:44 PM
p4bl0Jan 25, 2026, 8:49 PM
It does :). Thanks!
lamontcgJan 25, 2026, 9:03 PM
People are kind of missing the fact that you can draw a line from slave catchers and slave patrols to ICE. You don't have to go through Germany.
selecsosiJan 25, 2026, 9:06 PM
If anything, there's lots of writing on how Germany was ultimately inspired by socio-political events here in the USA on how to conduct their fascist behavior.
twistahJan 25, 2026, 9:35 PM
Read "Hitler's American Model". He loved what the American South was doing; the Nuremberg Race Laws were directly inspired by Jim Crow.
njhnjhnjhnjhJan 25, 2026, 9:15 PM
[flagged]
fugalfervorJan 25, 2026, 8:37 PM
I am so terribly disturbed by the ICE shootings (and killings). There is no justification for them. This is supposed to be a nation of laws and the rights of those shot (to say nothing of those abducted and harassed, beaten, or removed without due process) has been so grossly violated that it's hard to believe.

My heart aches for the countless victims of this band of fascists in the executive branch.

tombertJan 25, 2026, 8:52 PM
The killings are horrifying in their own right, but the most disturbing part to me is how quickly the Trump administration will just declare these people as "terrorists" before any kind of investigation has happened.

This suggests to me there is some level of systemic intent (or at least ambivalence) with this administration's use of ICE's use of lethal force. It is beyond concerning. This admin is now very literally murdering us and will immediately try to justify it.

fallinghawksJan 25, 2026, 9:02 PM
It's appalling how they go straight to making things up to suit their narrative, as if video evidence doesn't exist. They know the MAGAs will believe them, and may shed doubt on interpretation for people who aren't that curious about truth. A lie can travel halfway around the world, as they say.
michaelbartonJan 25, 2026, 9:34 PM
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."

I remember reading 1984 when I was a kid and enjoying it, at no point did I think it was more than sci-fi though. I suppose it goes to show how much we took for granted the last 80+ years.

It also makes me respect Orwell so much more. Which was already very high based on how he makes tea. How was he able to see you presciently?

https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwel...

drcongoJan 25, 2026, 10:20 PM
If you haven't already seen it, I highly recommend the documentary film "Orwell: 2+2=5", it's considerably better than its IMDb rating would suggest and frames a lot of his writing around recent / current events. It also gives a little insight into his prescience.
michaelbartonJan 26, 2026, 12:59 AM
Sounds doubleplus good! Will try to find it streaming somewhere!
tombertJan 25, 2026, 9:03 PM
I find it so surreal that people are so willing to believe the lies of someone who was literally convicted of lying in order to make himself look better.
gorbachevJan 26, 2026, 12:28 AM
There's nothing surprising about it given US history.

The US administration has always labeled any resistance against it as terrorism at least ever since 9/11. You might remember the justification of killing young Afghani males, who were posthumously labelled as terrorists. They drone strike an apartment complex and report 25 dead terrorists, conveniently omitting to report on dead children or women, because there were 25 males between the age of 15 - 25 among the dead. No evidence of terrorist activity required.

The only change is that the same justification is now being used within the US borders.

The dead are still, however, The Other, which is how it's being justified now as it was when the dead were foreigners in a war zone.

scarecrowbobJan 26, 2026, 1:39 AM
Since before then, as well.

think of ELF/Earth First in the 90s with "ecoterrorism"... plenty of stops between that and, say, the Haymarket affair. Or hell, much of the anti-indigenous genocide could probably be described using the term "counter-insurgency", which is closely related to how the US gov. thinks of terrorism.

C6JEsQeQa5fCjEJan 25, 2026, 11:43 PM
> the most disturbing part to me is how quickly the Trump administration will just declare these people as "terrorists" before any kind of investigation has happened

Imperial boomerang. After enabling Israel/IDF which routinely just shoots unarmed people and officials on all levels simply justify it with "Terrorists.", and also routinely denies ambulance access to victims shots, it was only a matter of time until such and similar tactics come back home. Because politicians back home saw that the world was okay with it, so why not do it home.

People are supposed to defend their rights from far away, so that they don't have to defend them uncomfortably close when it's too late to avoid many casualties.

midlanderJan 26, 2026, 12:30 AM
Well done on finding a way to link this story to your favorite scapegoat.
scarecrowbobJan 26, 2026, 1:42 AM
Yeh, the poster should have also at least name checked the administrative detention system of CIA's Phoenix program in Vietnam, which seems like a reasonable test-bed for many of the recent and horrific systems and a kind of common ancestor to both of the US ICE agency and its cousins in the Levant.

Leaving that bit of history out certain seems like a missed point of history, and absent that your parent post's point might indeed seem a little reach-y.

mickle00Jan 25, 2026, 8:54 PM
>some level of systemic intent

It's 100% the intent of this admin to use their secret police to drive fear and terror

RealityVoidJan 25, 2026, 8:49 PM
> I am so terribly disturbed by the ICE shootings (and killings). There is no justification for them.

I think they are simply poorly trained people that are given free reign. The results are disastrous. They probably don't wake up thinking "Today I'm going to murder someone" but they just don't realize what they're doing. I'm not sure how it's at the destructiveness scale at this moment, but these organizations can and it probably will get much worse as their internal culture morphs into more directly aggressive stance.

The shootings were incredibly dumb, and it's pretty much what one would expect when they create this kind of situation. Listening to the "Revolutions" podcast I realized situations like these are incredibly common all along history, you have armed people with tense spirits, a gun goes off and tragedy ensues. The most terrible part of all of this is the reaction of the authorities that lie, gaslight and support these people, get them off the hook and this reaction will only generate more violence and more deaths as ICE realizes they _really can_ act with impunity.

fugalfervorJan 25, 2026, 8:58 PM
They are also instructed illegally. They are told they don't need warrants signed by a judge in order to arrest someone.

The Stanford Prison Experiment is a good analogue to what we are seeing with ICE. People empowered to be cruel.

And they are given the message (from the president!) they have absolute immunity, and instructed to regard the law as a set of nonbinding guidelines.

The Supreme Court played a role in this too. They made it harder to stop by halting the long-established precedent of nationwide injunctions.

The people pulling the trigger are still not blameless. They are murderers no matter how badly misled. Your common murderer is misguided too. That doesn't mean they are absolved. I don't think that's what you were saying, but it bears mentioning.

tombertJan 26, 2026, 2:03 AM
I think the results of the Stanford Prison Experiment have been pretty heavily disputed, and it cannot be re-tested due to ethical concerns.

I personally don't think it's making the agents worse, but rather that it's very heavily selecting for very bad people. If you have a job where people can be violent and abusive with little-to-no oversight, you are going to select for people who want to do violent and abusive things. Keep in mind, these people aren't being "drafted" into ICE, they're voluntarily joining, meaning that they had to demonstrate some interest in it.

This doesn't imply that every ICE agent is a terrible person, just like how not every Catholic priest abuses children, but if you create a selection pressure then it isn't surprising when you get what you selected for.

Sample size of one but bear with me; I am an asshole but I am a decidedly non-violent person. I genuinely do not want to commit any form of violence on people. Law enforcement doesn't seem appealing to me because it pays worse than software and I wouldn't view physically attacking people with impunity as a benefit.

CamperBob2Jan 26, 2026, 3:47 AM
Milgram's a better example, without the baggage that Zimbardo brought to the table. Milgram's lesson: if an authority figure calls for an illegal, harmful, or unethical action, they won't have to go very far down the line until they find someone willing to carry it out, even if the first couple of people refuse.

ICE is said to be paying signing bonuses up to $50,000 [1]. That must seem like a fortune to the sorts of people they are recruiting... people who would happily do stuff like this for free if given permission.

1: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cqle5newg0no

_DeadFred_Jan 26, 2026, 3:03 AM
Lots of ICE were recruited from the BOP (Federal Prison). It's going to be interesting when they go back to that job with the current ICE culture ingrained. I foresee a lot of Bivens lawsuit payouts.
mold_aidJan 25, 2026, 11:30 PM
>They probably don't wake up thinking "Today I'm going to murder someone" but they just don't realize what they're doing

They absolutely woke up thinking that. This is the happiest these monsters have been in their lives

slgJan 26, 2026, 12:36 AM
Bovino has said the agents involved in the shooting are back at work today. Even if you believe that they were 100% justified in their actions, they killed a man, any decent organization that cared about human life would believe that has an impact on people and would put those involved on some sort of paid leave to process it. But that isn't how this organization works. This organization believes that taking a human life is just something that might happen over the course of your average workday and you'll be back at work the next day like nothing unusual happened.
tombertJan 26, 2026, 2:07 AM
Yeah, I have felt guilt for not doing enough to prevent an acquaintance's suicide for more than four years now [1], and literally every day it bothers me a little bit. If I directly killed someone, even if it were 100% justified, I am quite confident that it would really fuck me up for years.

Granted, I've been accused of feeling too much empathy by people, but I don't think that that's an atypical reaction. The fact that this officer was able to brush it off without blinking is extremely concerning.

[1] If you want you can read about it: https://blog.tombert.com/Posts/Personal/July-2023/Guilt-and-.... That said, please do not feel compelled to tell me stuff isn't my fault. I know you mean well when you say that but my emotions are complicated and I am seeing a therapist about this stuff.

burntoJan 25, 2026, 8:54 PM
Yep, I also have been a bit alarmed how this is pattern matching to early phases of the many revolutions covered in the Revolutions podcast. A U.S. revolution is a frightening proposition, even if it’ll seem warranted at some future point.
burkyJan 25, 2026, 8:58 PM
I think it's more than just poorly trained agents. Also framing it as "a gun goes off" doesn't track with the video footage I saw.
RealityVoidJan 25, 2026, 9:24 PM
The point is, when tense situations happen, you need to have everyone keep their cool. If someone flinches, people die. Repeat this situation many many times over a day, and tragedies will happen.

The shooting of Alex Pretti was a long chain of escalatory and poor decisions on the part of ICE (well, assuming here that "good" is defined by not shooting people, I'm sure some in this admin might disagree). I might come off too sympathetic to ICE. I am not, but the real killers here are the ones creating these kinds of situations, the ones using ICE as a political gain machine. I'm sure that ICE has its shares of psychopaths, but giving them reign in the first place... those people empowering them have blood on their hands.

throw0101cJan 25, 2026, 10:20 PM
> The point is, when tense situations happen, you need to have everyone keep their cool. If someone flinches, people die. Repeat this situation many many times over a day, and tragedies will happen.

Except that "flinching" is not happening. An earlier comment of mine:

---

On the most recent event, a reduced-speed video showing one agent (centre, bent over at beginning) removing the victim's firearm from his waistband, then a second agent (left) waiting for the first to get clear, and then pulling his pistol (video stops before any shooting):

* https://x.com/TheWarMonitor/status/2015272806636736647

* https://xcancel.com/TheWarMonitor/status/2015272806636736647

The actual shooting of the victim; view discretion advised:

* https://x.com/TheWarMonitor/status/2015335743443378660

* https://xcancel.com/TheWarMonitor/status/2015335743443378660

---

* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46754974

The second waited for the first guy to be clear, then drew, then started shooting. He was waiting for his opportunity.

RealityVoidJan 25, 2026, 10:44 PM
I saw the video, it was horrifying. My (admittedly, attempting to be as charitable as possible to murderers) take is that the one taking the weapon must have said he has a gun, and the first shooter reacted to that. It's a very sad day for the US, Alex Pretti seemed like a great person and what happened was disgraceful.

I still think that the most dangerous thing from this whole situation is how this admin frames it and effectively encourages ICE to kill people further, because there will be no consequence for them. Essentially, same thing they did with the Jan 6 protesters.

palataJan 25, 2026, 9:34 PM
I am totally against ICE, but I came here to say that I agree with the parent. In situations of stress like this, you never know how one may react. It takes a great deal of training to be able to stay calm and rational in such situations.

Obviously, the ICE agents have to rationalise what they do. "We are the good guy, we work against the bad guys". But I don't think that they wake up in the morning hoping that they will have an opportunity to hurt what they themselves consider "average americans".

Looking at the video, I could totally imagine that the first shot fired was a mistake, and then one or more of the agents panic and shoot... well... a LOT of times. That doesn't seem rational, or professional. I don't think that the agent thinks "ahah! Here is my opportunity, I'll shoot him 5 more times". Still, they killed someone for no apparent reason (it's not a proportional defense, quite obviously) and they should be judged for that.

JKCalhounJan 26, 2026, 3:02 AM
"In situations of stress like this, you never know how one may react."

Yes, please don't give those people guns.

tombertJan 25, 2026, 11:00 PM
> They probably don't wake up thinking "Today I'm going to murder someone" but they just don't realize what they're doing.

Maybe not explicitly, but I do think there's a selection bias towards people who do want to do that. If you know you can get away with exerting violence towards a group of people you don't like, then that career is going to be very appealing towards people who want to do that.

It's the same thing with priests and their abuse of children. It's not like being a priest turns you into a child-abuser. It's just that priests are in a situation that they're constantly surrounded by kids unsupervised, can live alone unmarried without anyone questioning it, and when they do something horrible and abuse their power then they're often just moved to another parish. Of course a job like that is going to be attractive to people who want to abuse children.

I think ICE is similar. I do think there are people who join ICE with genuinely noble intentions, like getting rid of cartels and whatnot, but the Trump admin has made ICE something extremely appealing to people who have worse intentions.

formerly_provenJan 25, 2026, 8:56 PM
> They probably don't wake up thinking "Today I'm going to murder someone" but they just don't realize what they're doing.

Jonathan Ross (the ICE agent who shot and killed Renée Good) is an Iraq war veteran who has served in military and paramilitary units (National Guard, CBP, ICE) for over two decades. He intentionally engaged in a behavior that has been documented as far back as 2014 [1] to manufacture a reason to shoot the person in front of him.

Did he premeditate killing someone while getting out of bed that morning? Probably not.

Did he make the decision to kill Ms. Good in advance? No reasonable doubt.

[1] Even by CBP internal reviews, no less: https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/us-border-agents-i...

idiotsecantJan 25, 2026, 8:54 PM
There are absolutely people in this group who woke up hoping they got an excuse to murder someone. You interact with the entire gamut of human experience every day, but you never know which ones are the secret heroes and which ones are the secret concentration camp guards until they're presented with the right set of circumstances. It's as much a mistake to assume that everyone is relatively moral as it is to assume that everyone is relatively evil.
RealityVoidJan 25, 2026, 9:30 PM
I agree with you, I just assume that the percentage of completely evil people is much smaller than most people think, but large enough that you interact with them regularly. And that you can get good people to do evil things if you put them in the right situation.
defrostJan 26, 2026, 12:05 AM
My comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46751234 and the link to a Coroner's report might be of interest.

Most LEO's are lawful well intentioned, but they do stand by and cover for a good many who are not, those that these days have encrypted chat groups dehumanising those they interact with and swapping notes on what they can get away with and come out smelling of roses.

Those rotten apples corrupt new recruits and normalise harshly putting the boot in, curb stomping, and other extremes.

An acquaintance of mine has seen the full roller coaster over the past 45 years, first defending police that were unquestionably exuberant in violence, later shunned for having had enough and pulling the rug.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Quigley_(politician)

analognoiseJan 25, 2026, 9:58 PM
These Nazis know what they’re doing.
shalmaneseJan 26, 2026, 6:44 AM
“For another, the term has been overused to the point of meaninglessness, especially by left-leaning types who call you a fascist if you oppose abortion or affirmative action.”

The left was right too early. Whereas I, the enlightened centrist was right and just the right time.

p4bl0Jan 25, 2026, 8:55 PM
An additional short read which is really worth it: Il fascismo eterno by Umberto Eco, in which the author describes 14 properties of fascists regimes.

It's been translated in English as Ur-fascism and is available online for free at the anarchist library: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fasci....

solaire_oaJan 26, 2026, 3:11 AM
To be honest, I found this essay a bit meandering and I lost interest in reading the whole thing (coming off the heels of re-reading Civil Disobedience, which by comparison is immediately forthright and to the point).

Skipping ahead to the 14 properties, however, points 5, 7, 11, and 12 are probably the most evident in the present moment.

frm88Jan 26, 2026, 5:07 AM
Bret Deveraux, the American historian, did an analysis in 2024 of Eco's essay with focus on Trump and found all 14 were already a check: https://acoup.blog/2024/10/25/new-acquisitions-1933-and-the-...
solaire_oaJan 26, 2026, 5:44 AM
Oh, having a historian's translation of the essay is legitimately helpful for understanding how the the points relate in the current climate, thank you. And I love acoup.blog, separately (tangentially related, I was legitimately crestfallen when he linked the formations of the orc army to the enduring, permeating, trans-generational success of Nazi propaganda https://acoup.blog/2019/05/24/collections-the-siege-of-gondo...)
ezstJan 25, 2026, 9:07 PM
> So the United States, once the world’s exemplary liberal democracy, is now a hybrid state combining a fascist leader and a liberal Constitution; but no, it has not fallen to fascism. And it will not.

That's some optimism right there.

blibbleJan 25, 2026, 9:11 PM
> world’s exemplary liberal democracy

this has never been the case either, unless you're listening to USian television/movies

acqqJan 25, 2026, 10:03 PM
European, not accidentally, also mostly deliver the same, misleading, narrative.
stellaloJan 26, 2026, 6:09 AM
This should not be flagged.

Flagging this: that’s fascism.

protastusJan 25, 2026, 9:11 PM
The Trump administration has gone so far down the path of fascism and crime that I'm convinced they don't simply want to be in power indefinitely -- they need it. Otherwise, the moment a law-abiding president gets elected, there will be criminal charges against all involved. And there's no statute of limitations for murder.

I believe this country will need massive investigations and criminal trials to heal. I am concerned with what happens in between, but this is reality as I see it.

hackingonemptyJan 26, 2026, 1:37 AM
> I believe this country will need massive investigations and criminal trials to heal. I am concerned with what happens in between, but this is reality as I see it.

Trump learned his lesson and pardoned every Jan 6 terrorist. If he leaves office, he is going to pardon every single person in his administration for anything they did from 2025-2029. There will be no investigations and no criminal trials. They all know this to be true.

tstrimpleJan 25, 2026, 9:34 PM
Unfortunately liberals seem to care far more about "unity" than justice in any sense. They have been letting conservatives get away with damaging our country repeatedly throughout the decades and always welcome them back with open bipartisan arms. Maybe we could have nipped this in the bud if the confederate states were forced to de-radicalize like Germany was. Instead literal traitors to our country were right back to running for national office again and have been sowing dissent literally ever since. How many Democrats just voted for even more ICE funding for fucks sake?
mnickyJan 25, 2026, 9:19 PM
Didn't the same happen after Biden was elected? And see, it achieved nothing, regrettably...
protastusJan 25, 2026, 9:51 PM
No, it didn't. Order was not restored, criminals were encouraged, and here we are.
wrsJan 25, 2026, 11:19 PM
There were investigations. There were indictments (including four of Trump himself). Here we are. What we learned is that the only constitutional remedy is impeachment (which was also tried twice). What has disabled all the checks and balances is the knife-edge Congressional majority, the takeover of the judiciary, and the purging of the civil service. Changing the President stops the active craziness but doesn't address the underlying problem.
mnickyJan 25, 2026, 10:43 PM
I should have put it differently. I'm afraid that maximum what will be realistically done will be similar to the situation after the Biden got elected. And that didn't help.
JohnTHallerJan 26, 2026, 12:32 AM
throwworhtthrowJan 25, 2026, 10:29 PM
It's not just Trump. Look at how even the weak Republican pushback is framed. They have no moral objection to his actions, only for the risk of blowback.

See Ted Cruz's remarks on Jimmy Kimmel: "[W]hen it is used to silence every conservative in America, we will regret it."

Or Brett Kavanaugh on Lisa Cook: that Trump shouldn't dismiss her because "what goes around comes around [...] if there's a Democrat president".

This is the moderate Republican position: no concern for the harm caused to people on the political left, only concern that they on the right might not get away with it. The MAGA position is, as this article shows, much worse.

jmclnxJan 25, 2026, 8:34 PM
No doubt with that, ICE seems to be able to kill when and whomever they want. ICE looks close to the brown shirts in Germany in the 30s.
noitpmederJan 25, 2026, 9:00 PM
They're basically jackboots, I have to imagine almost entirely composed of the republican far right. Just imagine the echo chamber that exists within their ranks.

They literally just murdered someone in cold blood. Textbook execution without trial. And have some of the most powerful people in the world saying how brave they are and how great of a job they did executing their duty.

Their entire recruiting process has the effect of self selecting for the exact kind of person who is significantly more likely to shoot an unarmed nonviolent protestor.

If I recall correctly they even have notably higher salary and signing bonuses compared to similar agencies, which could be (decent pessimistically) interpreted as a way to hoover up more recruits with questionable moral bases. "Oh I really don't think ICE is doing the right thing, but oh boy sign me up for that cash baby".

mickle00Jan 25, 2026, 9:14 PM
ICE being the highest funded U.S. law enforcement agency is so sad, and so fucked

https://www.kuow.org/stories/how-ice-grew-to-be-the-highest-...

cooksznJan 25, 2026, 8:59 PM
[dead]
ValveFan6969Jan 25, 2026, 11:30 PM
Shooting people for speaking is also fascism but they won't say that.
xnxJan 26, 2026, 12:18 AM
[flagged]
csenseJan 25, 2026, 8:57 PM
Everyone's paying a lot of attention to how bad Trump is, or the midterms. My question is, what happens in 2028? How much of current policy is something the majority of Republican voters (let alone the American people) or the political class actually want and would do without Trump to lead them? How much is only being implemented due to Trump's choices, political style and cult of personality? (Assuming Constitutional safeguards remain strong enough that Trump can't find a way to remain in power past his current term; if Trump is still President in 2029, the system's seriously broken down and all bets are off.)

Will the US say "Wait a minute, things went too far, now that he's gone we need more checks and balances before another President tries to repeat what just happened" like when they added term limits to the Constitution after FDR, or some of the post-Watergate limits imposed on the Presidency?

Or will Trump's redefinition of government power become normalized, like the redefinition of government power that happened with the Patriot Act, TSA security theater, NSA spying on US citizens, etc. after 9/11 that was justified as anti-terrorism? Those policies were never unwound even though the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are over, Osama bin Laden is dead, and there have been no more attacks on that scale.

doom2Jan 26, 2026, 3:07 AM
> now that he's gone we need more checks and balances

I'm sure if a Democrat is elected in 2028, all of a sudden a lot of people are going to remember that they don't want a unitary executive. A lot of people who are currently cheering on the administration.

cogman10Jan 25, 2026, 10:07 PM
I'm, frankly, terrified for 2 reasons.

First up, I don't think the republican party moderates in 2029. The Trump mentality is the new normal and I believe republicans are just going to keep trying to be as fascist as possible as long as possible. We've learned that there are basically no limits on a corrupt presidency and I really fear what that will mean for any future republican president.

But secondly, I'm afraid that Democrats aren't rising to the occasion. They aren't putting forward meaningful reforms or changes to address the fascism. In terms of ICE, a lot of them are trying to put forward meaningless reforms like "let's give them more training" or "let's put their names in a QR code". The entire agency needs nuremberg style trials at this point and some Dems want to give them a weekend meeting with HR.

These two facts scare the shit out of me. Because, my fear is we will see a repeat of 2024 in 2032. Assuming we have free and fair elections, I can see a Democrat becoming president in 2028, doing nothing to address the systemic problems exposed by trump, and ultimately a new republican will be voted in in 2032 because people are sick of nothing getting better under democrats. And that 2032 republican president will ultimately know they can do everything Trump did and they'll be cheered on by the base.

Democrats need to be messaging about real positive changes they'll make.

tartoranJan 25, 2026, 9:06 PM
I don't think things are going back to how they were before Trump and will only continue in the same direction unless midterm elections don't get canceled/abused, and in that case Trump would get impeached. But that doesn't mean too much. There are fundamental problems that Democrats were unwilling to tackle and are likely to do nothing about.
RealityVoidJan 25, 2026, 8:40 PM
I actually think that there is an amalgam of ideologies here (I know, so very fascist of them). Trump is more of a monarchist. A lot of the people supporting him are outright fascists. Some are plain idiots.

Them winning absolute control over the country would be a disaster for their movement though. They'd turn to internal fighting, the entropy of victory and all that. And they don't seem terribly competent with governance, it would probably turn off a lot of smart people, so the country would lose a lot of its capabilities.

EDIT: Also, there are funny things going on with the political submissions. I think there is active interference going on, they get flagged almost immediately. This got flagged and unflagged in the space of a couple minutes, so thanks to the mod team they are letting it up, I think there is important conversation to be had here.

blibbleJan 25, 2026, 9:00 PM
> Them winning absolute control over the country would be a disaster for their movement though. They'd turn to internal fighting, the entropy of victory and all that.

that would be after they've finished executing the undesirables?

I am quite amazed that the 2nd amendment people seem to be the ones that are cheering on the federal gestapo

RealityVoidJan 25, 2026, 9:25 PM
Not surprised at all, we're dealing with post-truth people here, policy is driven by feeling and perception, not coherency and reality.
wrsJan 25, 2026, 11:26 PM
Yes, this is literally the scenario every 2nd amendment fanatic justifies themselves with. But we already knew that made no sense; it doesn't change anything to have the hypocrisy demonstrated.
mickle00Jan 25, 2026, 9:11 PM
>I am quite amazed that the 2nd amendment people seem to be the ones that are cheering on the federal gestapo

"Rights for me, not for thee"

beardywJan 25, 2026, 9:21 PM
> Trump is more of a monarchist

Monarchs are in place without democratic support, so they have little incentive to be popular (though not unpopular either). Not being involved in politics often results in them having a distant concern for their subjects. They rarely instigate policy making. Doesn't sound like Trump.

mickle00Jan 25, 2026, 8:55 PM
It's sad that these posts are now seemingly disappearing from /active in addition to the home page

They are very relevant to the current state of affairs in America, with respect to tech, immigration, startups, and the hacker ethos

njhnjhnjhnjhJan 25, 2026, 9:27 PM
[flagged]
tstrimpleJan 25, 2026, 9:39 PM
The flagging system has been systematically gamed for restricting content for years now. I don't think the mods deserve any praise for occasionally doing something about it. They are ultimately complicit in the state of things being hidden on this site. It's "working as expected".
fugalfervorJan 25, 2026, 8:48 PM
Stephen Miller is a fascist, no doubt about it. Even if Trump is not a fascist, per se, he's following the advice of -- and delegating authority to -- the fascists that surround him.
TostinoJan 25, 2026, 8:55 PM
And Germany would have been a much larger country economically if Hitler was executed after his first coup attempt. The Weimar government didn't choose that path though, and went for civility.

The brain drain was massive, both before the war, and even more so after. That didn't stop the peasant minded from supporting the Nazi regime though. They got to punish the people who they were told made them poor.

I live in FL, so I get to interact daily with people who are cheering for this crackdown, and have said the equivalent of "those rioters (protestors) should be put down in the street". I don't have much hope for where our country is headed.

The flags on any type of post like this are absolutely ridiculous. Glad the mods are at least for now letting this one stand.

eudamoniacJan 25, 2026, 11:47 PM
I read through every comment in this thread and no one seems to be addressing that the people voted for this. They'll probably vote for it again in the midterms and/or 2028. You're despairing over a democratic outcome. What do you actually propose that would fix this? Disenfranchise half the country? Outlaw things people are voting for to happen? Any criticism needs to address how we democratically counter this regime, how this makes sense when this is the voted upon regime, or perhaps make an argument for why democracy has failed.

My perspective is that a scale has tipped, a critical mass of people decided they want this sort of thing, and they got it. It wasn't rigged, it wasn't fraudulent, it was a democratic election. Critique democracy itself, or the criticism is incoherent. Make an argument for why a government should be disallowed from doing things that the voters want it to do.

xnxJan 26, 2026, 12:17 AM
> Disenfranchise half the country?

Way more than half the country was disenfranchised in the last election. Best case scenario (and very unlikely scenario): blue sweep in the next elections and then massive electoral reform.

jemmywJan 26, 2026, 12:50 AM
Electoral reform is really hard for parties just voted in by that election system. Suddenly they see the good in that which they had previously seen as bad.
willmarchJan 26, 2026, 3:22 AM
You can't vote away the Constitutional rights of other people. ICE is regularly violating the Constitution and being encouraged to do so by those in power. Unless multiple amendments were removed from the Constitution without anybody noticing, your point about "the people voted for this" is an absurd and ridiculous attempt to justify real abuse of power and anti-democratic actions.

If we can't agree as a people that the Constitution applies to everyone equally then it isn't a problem with democracy, it's a problem with fascism and must dealt with as such.

throwawayb2025Jan 26, 2026, 12:58 AM
There might be Gandhian/Nelson Mandela way of handling this. Both fought to change system and didn't teach hatredness towards individual a Racist person. Get arrested peacefully.

Others can work for immediate protest for release of the arrested.

Appeal to common values that they also have, and show how they are violating the religious values they profess.

Technically someone can make some app, that can easily help in getting the citizenship proof for an individual.

I am not from USA.

deegJan 26, 2026, 12:26 AM
I think a lot of voters were fooled (or foolish) into thinking that Trump would limit himself to go after other people; he got a higher percentage of minority votes in 2024 then prior elections. That's not good but the mask is off and I think Trump has lost a lot of those voters.

It's also hard to quantify how much the pandemic and inflation moved some voters away from Biden/Harris.

I think Dems will win big in the next election. The question is how long this lesson will last with voters.

litoEJan 26, 2026, 12:36 AM
If your definition of Democracy is based on how we elect our leaders, then Hitler's Germany was a Democracy because Hitler was elected Chancellor by a majority. You need to define Democracy based on how we replace our leaders. In that case, Hitler's Germany was not a democracy since it was impossible for the people to replace the Fuhrer had they wished to. In Trump's case, we may still be a Democracy but there are worrysome indications ("Trump’s recent musing that there should be no 2026 election may or may not have been jocular").
hypeateiJan 26, 2026, 1:07 AM
I thought a lot of the rhetoric was around economic issues during the 2024 campaign season? I see this argument a lot, and while it's true that a sizable percentage voted for punishment of their political opponents, I don't think independents (in the immigration and "egg prices" camps) wanted this. Trump 2.0 voters should be ashamed because the signs were obvious, but the notion that we need to put kid gloves on for the vile, murderous fascists is asinine.

The next chapter of America needs to be punishing anyone who was apart of these death squads and the officials who allowed it to happen. That's it. There is no statute of limitations on murder or treason. We can't make the same mistakes as we did after the civil war (leniency towards confederates and various compromises)

thranceJan 25, 2026, 11:57 PM
I actually think disenfranchisement is the only solution. Nazis didn't change their worldview after the war ended, they were shamed for them and learned to hide.

Republicans are now defending straight-up murder in broad daylight by federal forces. I doubt there's anything that could change their minds at this point, they're too far gone.

learingsciJan 25, 2026, 9:09 PM
Trump needs we better critics. Heck, we all need better Trump critics. This unfortunately is more of the same; doing more harm than good.
RealityVoidJan 25, 2026, 9:50 PM
I think your point is true, better critique helps dismantling post-truth populism. I also think the article is correct in its assessment and is a good critique for a certain segment of the population. It might be true that it won't persuade any trumpers though. Not sure you can persuade them with articles.
twistahJan 25, 2026, 9:32 PM
[dead]
touwerJan 25, 2026, 9:29 PM
The most scaring and amazing thing is not Trump himself, but all the people (suddenly) supporting him and being silent (including too many Democrats) in order to keep their position or for for opportunistic purposes. And destroying democracy along the way. Just like all the secret police agents in Iran or the henchmen of Hitler. CEO's of bigtech. Crypto-libertarians. Too many people are sucking up to wannabe dictators when the moment is there
WickyNilliamsJan 25, 2026, 11:06 PM
Same pattern played out in Germany. The centrists were more concerned with leftists than Hitler. Big business thought they could cosy up to him and keep him under control. Opportunistic collaboration for self preservation or personal benefit.

Of course these all turned out to be grave miscalculations. I imagine that pattern will eventually play out this time too...

wrsJan 25, 2026, 11:15 PM
Is it possible their only miscalculation was not realizing how much of the world would fight back? Because if it hadn't, they would have continued enjoying the benefits.
WickyNilliamsJan 25, 2026, 11:37 PM
No I don't think so. Broadly they hitched their cart to a genocidal madman. Their hubris convinced them they could maintain a steer on its direction.

The centrists ultimately lost when the Nazis banned other political parties. If they were not murdered first. And the Nazis took control of the German workforce, imposed harsh taxation on businesses, central planning, nationalization etc.

I'm sure the uneasy alliance worked well for a a little while though!

acqqJan 25, 2026, 10:18 PM
Only somebody who isn't aware of whose "Congress speech received multiple standing ovations, touted 'most by any world leader'" would be surprised by that bipartisan support you mention. That happened in 2024, before Trump began his second term, but shows how the system works.
testing22321Jan 25, 2026, 8:34 PM
The parallels it dark times in history are too strong to ignore.

The only question now is will the people be able to stop the takeover before it’s too late.

tartoranJan 25, 2026, 8:57 PM
It seems like it's already too late, I see Americans who I thought were down to earth unbothered by ICE killings, blaming victims and calling criticism as TDS aka Trump Derangement Syndrome. I was totally shocked the other day when this came from an open minded and seemingly 'cool' guy at work.
jay_kyburzJan 25, 2026, 8:50 PM
After reading this piece I was wondering if there were any examples of a fascist state that were deposed by peace, or whether armed conflict is now inevitable.
freitasmJan 25, 2026, 8:57 PM
There are few, Spain's King Juan Carlos I being crowned king after Francisco Franco's death, and Chile's Pinochet leaving power after the 1988 referendum for example.
ks2048Jan 25, 2026, 9:08 PM
If 15 years of dictatorship is one of the few positive examples, that is not a good sign.
card_zeroJan 25, 2026, 9:28 PM
Well how many examples have there been anyway? Maybe six, under a range of definitions? Besides, historicism (inevitabilism) is wrong.
jay_kyburzJan 25, 2026, 10:08 PM
I agree, and I wish I was able to delete the post. I thought afterwards the question itself is a little poor taste.
kh_hkJan 25, 2026, 10:22 PM
karmakurtisaaniJan 25, 2026, 9:02 PM
I think Spain transitioned from fascist dictatorship to democracy relatively peacefully.
quercusJan 25, 2026, 8:59 PM
“weak men create hard times” never fails
deegJan 26, 2026, 12:33 AM
And there is no weaker, frailer man than trump.
gizmov21Jan 25, 2026, 10:33 PM
Who are the “weak men” in your interpretation of today’s scenario? I have my own ideas but I wonder about others.
quercusJan 25, 2026, 10:35 PM
ICE and the protests are an early symptom of hard times. The weak men are the ones who allowed immigration and the welfare state to get out of control in the first place.
gizmov21Jan 25, 2026, 11:30 PM
Agreed there. I would call Trump et all pathetic pieces of shit, and Democrats (Biden and Obama admins) weak ones for not doing something while they had the chance.
WickyNilliamsJan 25, 2026, 11:21 PM
I hate this quote with such a passion. It's treated as some enduring wisdom passed down through generations. When it's from a 2016 book you have probably never heard of.
jLaForestJan 25, 2026, 9:25 PM
[flagged]
dangJan 25, 2026, 9:57 PM
HN has had numerous major frontpage threads that are critical of this administration. Not enough to satisfy those who want more, but that is a separate issue.
smwJan 25, 2026, 11:14 PM
Hey, I think you're a superhero for making this place such wonderful forum for deep and interesting conversation, but isn't there some point where you might consider putting your finger on the scale to help stop the slide into authoritarianism? This seems like the moment, maybe?
RedoubtsJan 26, 2026, 1:09 AM
> isn't there some point where you might consider putting your finger on the scale to help stop the slide into authoritarianism? This seems like the moment, maybe?

posting isn't praxis. what do you think more articles on this site will achieve?

jLaForestJan 25, 2026, 11:33 PM
It's a matter of taking his finger off the scale... Stop taking down threads with productive discussion just because they conflict with your worldview (and financial interests)
dangJan 26, 2026, 12:38 AM
What you call "taking finger off scale" would turn HN into a politics / current affairs site. I know that some of you want that, and a few even wonder how we can possibly be so evil as not to do it, but it is simply not the kind of site that HN is. That is the case regardless of what terminology you use - fingers on scales, curation, moderation, - which are different ways of describing the same thing.

I'm not sure why you need to invoke cynical motives for us running HN this way, since the reasons we give for this (which are quite real) explain things better. (for example, if we only cared about suppressing this stuff, why would HN be having frontpage threads about it at all? that doesn't make much sense.) But that's just me.

I think it would help you guys to understand that most of the HN community, even most who agree with you politically, do not want us to throw in the towel and let HN become like the rest of the internet. Only a small portion of users want this, though they do post intense (and sometimes even aggressive) comments about it. Given that HN has always stuck to its mandate and that the community wants us to keep doing so, I don't see this as a close call.

LexiMaxJan 26, 2026, 1:02 AM
Most of the social spaces that I frequent don't have the amount of political topics posted as HN.

Would you like to know the difference between those spaces and here? It's that in those spaces, regardless of if the members are left right or center, the community is on the same page in terms of authoritarians, and authoritarian apologia will get you tossed.

Therefore, there isn't the same sort of desire - or need - to point out the obvious and show the uncomfortable realities to the crowd.

Refusing to take a stand on this sort of thing and leaving it for the community to sort out will only make things worse. It's functionally no different than the kind of combative environment you get on major social media networks; the only difference is the amount of tone policing caused by the user-facing moderation tools.

jLaForestJan 25, 2026, 11:32 PM
Yes I know because I've read through several right before they are predictably taken down. But yes I will take your word and stop believing my eyes and ears...
Willson50Jan 25, 2026, 11:51 PM
Be nice to Dang, he is just following orders.
mickle00Jan 25, 2026, 9:31 PM
fwiw it's been flagged and unflagged four times since I posted. I don't know the algorithm -- but it's been great to see whomever is unflagging understanding the importance and significance of this issue and relevance to hackers everywhere.
jLaForestJan 25, 2026, 11:34 PM
And here it remains flagged... I wonder why?
ClownsAboundJan 25, 2026, 8:40 PM
[dead]
renewiltordJan 25, 2026, 9:01 PM
It's true. This kind of authoritarian state violence is pretty reminiscent of fascism. Especially what looks like a gangland execution of a man who could only ever be described as exercising his 2A rights by carrying a firearm undrawn legally under his CCW. However, the list of things that have been called fascism are so long that I have to admit that my eyes initially glazed over the headline because many things have been described as fascism.

The US was supposedly ruled by a fascist in 2018: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/11/books/review/jason-stanle...

There was also supposedly fascism coming in 2016: https://www.brookings.edu/articles/this-is-how-fascism-comes...

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09626...

And yet we had elections in 2020. So whatever, it was clearly not authoritarian fascism because we had free elections that the authoritarian fascist was ousted in. So what I think I experienced there was semantic satiation with the word fascism.

EDIT: To clarify position vis a vis reply, I am simply saying that I have heard the word 'fascism' so much I don't really react with any sense when someone says it. It's like hearing 'rape' or 'spying' on Hacker News. I assume it means "I was shown a banner ad for toothpaste after searching for toothpaste". In other contexts those words have negative valence of great significance. In this context, I just glaze over.

Likewise, the word 'fascism' from a left-leaning outlet could be anything from the end of medicare subsidies to a drone strike on an Islamic fundamentalist general to charging fares on a train.

Just sharing how I feel about it. It does not have that emotional strength that it originally felt.

Jordan-117Jan 25, 2026, 10:49 PM
A careful reader will notice that both of those warnings are about the same person. The same person who tried to illegally and violently overturn that 2020 election result. Maybe they weren't crying wolf after all?
tstrimpleJan 25, 2026, 9:43 PM
Found another one of them...

2015: You're overreacting!

2016: You're overreacting!

2017: You're overreacting!

2018: You're overreacting!

2019: You're overreacting!

2020: You're overreacting!

2021: You're overreacting!

2022: You're overreacting!

2023: You're overreacting!

2024: You're overreacting!

2025: How could we possibly have known things would have gone this way?!

culiJan 25, 2026, 10:01 PM
HN in a nutshell. Everyone wants to look measured and above it all. I feel like I've seen more posts about Dan Kahan's cultural cognition than about the actual killings themselves
convolvatronJan 25, 2026, 9:11 PM
you're saying that because as recently as 10 years ago, some people were warning about fascism taking hold in the United States, and even though they turned out to be right, they should have held off using that word until we reached this moment, where no sensible person would argue.
UncleMeatJan 25, 2026, 11:01 PM
And it isn't even like it was different people. Donald Trump has been the protagonist of the GOP for ten years. The people who were saying "this is creeping fascism" were saying it about the same guy who is doing it now.
wslhJan 25, 2026, 8:53 PM
I don’t understand how there aren’t demonstrations happening almost everywhere in the US by now.
mocheezeJan 25, 2026, 8:59 PM
There are though. Regularly.
gizmov21Jan 25, 2026, 10:17 PM
Seriously lol. MN had HUGE protests the last few days, as did LA when the DHS was there (and why they probably went to somewhere less hostile like MN and soon Maine).
le-markJan 25, 2026, 9:00 PM
Itis horrendous by any measure. But Fox and conservative media amplify and support it all. Trump voters by and large love the deportations; I know this from my in laws over the holidays. If a few eggs get broken they really don’t care. Notice red states have none of this because Trump focuses ICE on blue states.

Protests are what Trump wants. He would like nothing better than marshal law and cancelling the mid terms. He has said so many times.

EmanueleAinaJan 25, 2026, 9:17 PM
You are not wrong. But history also somewhat shows that appeasement is even worse.
wslhJan 25, 2026, 9:05 PM
I also wonder how politically weak the US could be if its rivals and adversaries see this level of internal violence as an opportunity to step up pressure or exploit divisions at home.
RealityVoidJan 25, 2026, 9:46 PM
You think they don't already do this? Social media is astroturfed to hell, even HN is being manipulated. Look how political submissions get flagged. I honestly think the current internet is irredeemable for real conversations about this.
fhdkweigJan 25, 2026, 9:46 PM
I'm of the opinion that the Russians, through paid online trolling, are responsible for starting this 10 years ago. They helped stoke the fears that got Trump elected the first time.
thunkyJan 26, 2026, 12:08 AM
Don't forget to give CNN the credit it deserves.
krappJan 26, 2026, 12:19 AM
The fears that got Trump elected the first time have been a part of American culture since the civil war, if not the founding of the nation itself. You can find echoes of him all the way back to the John Birch Society. This is an entirely American problem.
cooksznJan 25, 2026, 8:56 PM
[dead]
quercusJan 25, 2026, 8:58 PM
[flagged]
mingus88Jan 25, 2026, 9:02 PM
Then why isn’t ICE in the states with the most immigrants?
mickle00Jan 25, 2026, 9:07 PM
logic would indicate that its either (or both) (1) its not about immigration (it's about power and control thru fear) or (2) they're idiots
throw0101cJan 25, 2026, 10:29 PM
> logic would indicate that its either (or both) (1) its not about immigration (it's about power and control thru fear) or (2) they're idiots

Let's not forgot and/or (3) going after Minnesota voter roles (per this letter from Pam Bondi):

* https://archive.is/https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2026/...

* https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bondi-minnesota-voter-rolls-wel...

mickle00Jan 25, 2026, 10:30 PM
I see that as a subset of 1 (power & control thru fear), but yeah, clearly, and obviously not the 'stated' reasons
mingus88Jan 25, 2026, 9:12 PM
Agreed. If this were about enforcing immigration law, they would first focus on red states with huge immigrant populations, where they would have full cooperation from the local government and citizens who overwhelmingly voted for Trump. Those supporters who care about enforcing immigration laws would directly benefit.

This is obviously violence directed at Minnesota, who is led by a political opponent. It’s capital F Fascism and everyone on the right has grandfathers that are ashamed of them.

cogman10Jan 25, 2026, 10:11 PM
> everyone on the right has grandfathers that are ashamed of them.

There's plenty of German heritage in the US. There was a decent number of grandparents who thought the US was on the wrong side of WW2.

quercusJan 25, 2026, 9:24 PM
Who can resist a little schadenfreude.
cooksznJan 25, 2026, 9:04 PM
[dead]
scoofyJan 25, 2026, 9:25 PM
You can be pro-immigration enforcement, while also anti whatever-the-fuck-this-is.

It's called being pro-rule of law.

You're not allowed to just shoot people in the back that are very obviously not a threat, even if their idiotic lack of proper training makes them feel like they're in danger. It's literally South Parkian "they're coming right for us!!!" -- BANG -- as justification for lethal force of an unarmed person in custody.

mickle00Jan 25, 2026, 9:04 PM
source?

The mainstream media is not covering the many daily protests I see in my area, and hear and see from friends and family elsewhere. However, I do think the majority of Americans do not have the luxury (or fear of losing their job, and thus their healthcare, etc) to just walk out on their jobs or responsibilities, and the social safety nets here are limited (and being further cut by this administration).

I do think a general strike is the last chance at a non-violent resistance, but the oligarchs and powerful can weather that storm much more easily than the average American.

quercusJan 25, 2026, 9:22 PM
They literally voted for it.
array_key_firstJan 25, 2026, 9:34 PM
They voted for something else, they were conned by populist messaging.
quercusJan 25, 2026, 10:21 PM
Immigration was a pretty big topic during the election. People knew what they were voting for. I find it sad that you find it hard to believe people have civic pride they want to defend.
fhdkweigJan 25, 2026, 9:52 PM
I didn't bother to vote in 2016 because I wasn't paying attention. I was used to politics being about two nearly identical groups who both wanted what was best for America. By 2020 and 2024, everyone should have known who this guy was. He thrived on media attention. Even during the 4 years of Biden, every news article was about him. Everyone knew what he wanted to do, and they voted for what they wanted.
magicalhippoJan 25, 2026, 11:37 PM
If you voted for Trump and is surprised by anything that's happened the past year, that's like trying to say you thought the 12 year old girl was actually over 18.
113Jan 25, 2026, 9:08 PM
I guess I was right when people were telling me "you can't call everything you don't like fascism"
njhnjhnjhnjhJan 25, 2026, 9:12 PM
[flagged]
array_key_firstJan 25, 2026, 9:32 PM
Everything even vaguely critical of trump is immediately flagged, tech or not. Christ, we've seen outright propaganda generated by this administration using AI, which is obviously something hackers care about, be flagged relentlessly.

It's very obvious this administration and it's supporters are trying to control the narrative of their crimes against the American people. It's evident with their doctoring of evidence, their outright deceit, and the suspicious censorship we see across the entire web. Including HN.

messeJan 25, 2026, 9:52 PM
> It is against the rules to call anything fascism

If that's true then this site and pg can go ahead and fuck themselves with a rusty knife.

fugalfervorJan 25, 2026, 9:20 PM
Is it against the rules to call fascism fascism? That's pretty disturbing.
njhnjhnjhnjhJan 25, 2026, 9:23 PM
Why is the post flagged? Obviously it's against the rules.

edit:

I challenge you to post a comment labelling the United States government "fascists" in this front-page thread about ICE: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46756117

It won't stay up for long.

fugalfervorJan 25, 2026, 9:34 PM
Why is a brand new account (yours) rushing to flagged threads with the party line? It looks like you registered just to post in this thread.
RealityVoidJan 25, 2026, 9:43 PM
I _think_ it's satire?
fugalfervorJan 25, 2026, 9:51 PM
What makes you think that? They have posted multiple times in this thread with basically the same post.
RealityVoidJan 25, 2026, 9:55 PM
I think his edit? I read the edit as him pointing out that political posts get flagged on the front page. But it's obviously not flagged because of the rules, it's flagged because _someone_ is flagging this stuff. I say this because the first minutes of the post existence, it oscillated between flagged and un-flagged. Surely, we also triggered the comment activity trigger that auto-flags the post, some anti-flamewar measure.

Also, this phrase from him:

> This is an inconvenient perspective that some of the more well-funded and well-connected Hacker News readers would prefer to ignore.

fugalfervorJan 25, 2026, 10:22 PM
It's kind of subtle, but I think you're right.
mistermaster1Jan 25, 2026, 9:26 PM
While I don’t like what this administration is doing, this is still hyperbole and sensationalism. True fascism would not allow the massive criticism and outrage (including by active lawmakers and heads of state & local governments) that recent events have reasonably led to.

Also, the midterm elections this year will be a direct, real and concrete mechanism that demonstrates that we aren’t living under fascism in the United States.

shitterJan 25, 2026, 10:00 PM
This comment betrays a misunderstanding of history and of what fascism is and doesn't even engage with the article's points. A totalitarian fascist state does not come into being all at once; it emerges in steps that tend towards that outcome, steps which the article discusses in detail. Furthermore, that nascent fascism can be defeated through electoral means does not preclude it from being fascism.
usernomdeguerreJan 25, 2026, 9:34 PM
So the only point someone could conceivably write this article, in your mind, would be the moment after its writers and platforms would be subjected to state-sanctioned punishment for uttering it?

I'll accept a little front-running then, if you don't mind.

mistermaster1Jan 25, 2026, 10:35 PM
No they could write it in another state, anonymously, or on more underground/less mainstream established platforms than one of the oldest publications in the history of the republic. More like what’s happening with regards to Iran. Also, front-running also implies that there’s an order for fascism coming up. So the intent of establishing fascism is preceded by a bungled and visibly brutal and horribly implemented performative “operation” that this massacre by ICE is? That makes no sense. This is not an order for fascism that an article is sort of front-running protectively. The better analogy is a media entity predictably calling one extremely messed up thing another extremely messed up thing, and leaving a massive vulnerability for their side. Messed-up-thing-promoting folks will use articles like this a year from now after ICE ceases operations, effectively issuing a silent “apology” of sorts and curtailing the violence, to promote the next messed up thing they want to do (which may be less messed up than the ICE massacres but still would be quite messed up and avoidable).

Every pessimistic approximation isnt always good. We lose credibility when we keep doing it.

RealityVoidJan 25, 2026, 9:37 PM
> True fascism would not allow the massive criticism and outrage (including by active lawmakers and heads of state & local governments) that recent events have reasonably led to.

It hasn't yet captured the whole country. The parts of criticism they have had the power to silence, they have already silenced. Who's in the White House press corps again?

When they will capture all the power they need, the criticism will be silenced.

I fear that we might not see a definitive Democratic win though at the midterms. I think your country is already past the point of no return and your population is just not getting it yet.

mistermaster1Jan 25, 2026, 10:41 PM
Thank you for your personal, individual wisdom that exceeds that of 230+ million eligible US voters in the 2026. That about settles it, we are past the point of no return so we should do absolutely nothing. In fact any action would be irrational, a waste of effort and a misallocation of time and energy vs spending it with our families and/or on ourselves. And somehow, I am the person who is defending the so-called fascists and ensuring a place “shining their jackboots” (your peer here used this expression to try to denigrate/attack me)? It must really hurt to be so smart and to be able to see all of the future perfectly.
RealityVoidJan 25, 2026, 10:47 PM
I'm honestly sorry, you're right to be angry. I'm not trying to demobilize you. I'm despairing myself as well, I hope for the US to keep its shit together. But I just don't think it's looking great. Sorry, really, I don't want to make fun of the shit the US is in.

I think I _am_ guilty of using a poor intellectual facade trying to make sense of this what the fuck historical moment we're in. Because trust me, my country is in a dangerous place as well.

mistermaster1Jan 25, 2026, 11:17 PM
Thank you for taking ownership. Unfortunately when the online “gang” effectively amplifies itself (either through correlation of their voices as they see something that isn’t there; or in actual coordination/racing to echo one another) the emergent effect is one of ostracization and it becomes easier to see how some people become radicalized and even get cornered into dishonestly defending worse and worse actions & positions which they never would have otherwise defended. I chose not to do that, but only because this isn’t the first time that I’ve been mobbed by groupthinkers who want to defend whatever article or tagline they are promoting to the point of attacking me for making any point that seems critical of any part of their current bible of choice.
donkey_brainsJan 25, 2026, 9:35 PM
Ah yes, the “no true fascism” fallacy. Thanks for posting your half-thought out defense of the party that is murdering citizens in the street! I’m sure they appreciate your attempts to keep their jackboots shiny.
mistermaster1Jan 25, 2026, 10:27 PM
Can you point out how I was defending a party? I’m simply saying that the US isn’t a fascist state yet. We can engage, debate and discuss. People are actively out in the streets of MSP and watching and confronting these agents and the incidents are being documented, spread widely and analyzed. Calling it fascism isn’t productive nor is it even front running. I am willing to bet against any of you that this insanity perpetrated by poorly trained or untrained agents running amok in the midwest will be old news by the end of the year and no not because it has been subsumed by some worse class of atrocities. It will have ended, ICE will have ceased these sort of unchecked “operarions” and largely due to public outrage and scrutiny. Actual outrage, scrutiny and genuine activism, not writing articles from an armchair that mischaracterize this as fascism or racism. That sort of thing only perpetuates and makes the rabid crazies who actually support these actions in light of the tragedies sink their jackboots in even harder and empowers them more despite them being in the minority.